Q. and A.
Umberto Eco: Exploring Imaginary Lands With One of Italy’s Masters of Fiction
Giovanna Silva
The author Umberto Eco at his home in Milan. He has collected more than 50,000 books.
By STEPHEN HEYMAN
Published: November 27, 2013
Umberto Eco, 81, the Italian semiotician and globally successful novelist, is an insatiable bibliophile. He has collected more than 50,000 books, and has a particular passion for volumes on imaginary, occult or even bogus subjects.
“I am interested in fakes, in falsity,” he said in an interview. “I don’t have Galileo, but I have Ptolemy, because he was wrong.”
Rifling through his library, Mr. Eco assembled “The Book of Legendary Lands” (Rizzoli ex Libris, $45), an illustrated survey of mythic places — Atlantis, El Dorado, Camelot — and the real imprint they’ve left on history.
The book is the latest of Mr. Eco’s brainy coffee table volumes; earlier ones have collected art and ideas about beauty, ugliness and “the infinity of lists.” Reached by telephone at his country house near Rimini, Mr. Eco spoke about his latest “erudite divertissement” and the decline of Italian culture (but not its crime fiction). Here is an edited excerpt of the conversation.
Q. Your new book begins with a falsehood that has endured to the present: That people in the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat.
A. Yes, and even cultivated people still repeat it to this day. The official culture in the Middle Ages was absolutely convinced that the earth was spherical and they accepted the Greek idea of the measure of the equator. It’s just intellectual and cultural laziness. We are also continuously told that during the Middle Ages they burned witches, when the real burning of witches started in the Renaissance.
Q. What are you at work on now?
A. I am in turmoil over a very complex story. In the States, they publish an enormous collection of books called “The Library of Living Philosophers.” It started with John Dewey and Bertrand Russell and the last book was about Richard Rorty. For mysterious reasons — probably because there is nobody else is around — they chose me for the next one. These are books of 1,500 pages. I am supposed to write 100 pages of philosophical autobiography. And there are 25 people, working at this moment, each writing a paper on my philosophical activity. And I am supposed to read all of them and to respond to each of them with at least three or four pages each. I think I have two years to work on it, and I am hoping to die before I have to do it.
Q. Are you skeptical about all the reports about the decline of Italian culture?
A. What decline? There is me! [Laughs] I think that nobody is able to evaluate the period in which he or she lives. I think when Joyce was publishing his first book there were a lot of people in Ireland saying Irish culture is in complete decline. The one who will be considered the greatest writer of the 21st century is in this moment alive but we don’t recognize him.
Q. You’ve said that the detective novel is a barometer of narrative production in any country. By that metric, where does Italy rank?
A. Narrativity presumes a special taste for plot. And this taste for plot was always very present in the Anglo-Saxon countries and that explains their high quality of detective novels. It is absolutely true that until recently there was nothing in Italian similar to Agatha Christie or Ian Fleming, not to speak of Sherlock Holmes. But there is something new. As in the Swedish culture, where there was an enormous birth of crime stories, in Italy for the past 20 years, there’s been a great production of good-quality detective stories. It’s a miracle — suddenly the Italian culture discovered the art of the plot.
Q. What changed?
A. We had in the last 50 years many mysteries in our country that probably excited the imagination young writers. Political and criminal mysteries, certain unexplained links between 1970s terrorism and political groups. There’s the case of Emanuela Orlandi, a girl living in the Vatican in a family of officials of the Vatican state, who disappeared 30 years ago. We still do not know if she is alive and why she was kidnapped. The history of Italy is full of stories like that.
Q. You often talk about wanting your books to outlive you. Why are you so preoccupied with the survival of your work?
A. Every writer, every artist, every musician, scientist is profoundly interested in the survival of his or her work after their death. Otherwise they would be idiots. Do you believe that Raphael was not interested in what happened to his paintings after his death? It’s another side of the normal human desire to survive personally in some way, and that is the root of every religion. That is essential if you work on something creative to have this hope. Otherwise you are only a person doing something to make money, to have women and Champagne. You don’t love your work if you don’t hope so. mythos 翻譯成情節 p.288
很奇怪這同義於"敘述"或廣義的神話
參考
http://books.google.com.tw/books?id=IrkMrnMe5qsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=he+Secular+Scripture:A+Study+of+the+Sturcture+of+Romance&source=bl&ots=Nj5dhsYVlc&sig=D6AFIMJphCT5C398_q5gaK9kt4I&hl=zh-TW&ei=sF6pTLGtJsbBcfOB6dIN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=snippet&q=MYTHOS&f=false
Umberto Eco《艾可談文學》( Sulla letteratura) 翁德明 譯
《艾可談文學‧互文反諷以及閱讀層次》台北: 皇冠文化出版 2008
「這個指涉(當然是有意的)是英譯者插進去的，老實說，英譯本的確包含這個回響，這點意味著，翻譯不只能改變互文性反諷的遊戲而且還能使它豐富。」頁273
安伯托．艾可（Umberto Eco）
一九三二年出生於義大利皮德蒙的亞歷山卓，現任波隆 那大學高等人文科學學院教授與院長。艾可身兼哲學家、歷史學家、文學評論家和美學家等多種身分，更是全球最知名的記號語言學權威。其學術研究範圍廣泛，從 聖托瑪斯．阿奎那到詹姆士．喬伊斯乃至於超人，知識極為淵博。個人藏書超過三萬冊，已發表過十餘本重要的學術著作，其中最著名的是《讀者的角色─記號語言 學的探討》一書。
艾可在他四十八歲時，才推出第一本小說《玫瑰的名字》，該書自一九八○年出版後，迅速贏得各界一致的推崇與好評，除榮獲義大利和法國的文學獎外，亦席捲世界各地的暢銷排行榜，銷售迄今已突破一千六百萬冊，被翻譯成三十五種語文，並被改編拍成同名電影。
儘管第一本小說就取得非凡的成就，他卻遲至八年後才出版第二本小說《傅科擺》，也一如各方所料，再度轟動世界各地，成為最熱門的閱讀話題。一九九四年他 推出第三本小說《昨日之島》，目前銷售已超過二百萬冊，中文版並入選中國時報開卷年度十大好書和聯合報讀書人年度最佳書獎！而他於二○○○年出版的第四本 小說《波多里諾》，更被國際出版界視為當年的頭等大事，義大利文版首刷即高達三十萬冊，對於一本嚴肅的文學作品來說，無疑是十分罕見的天文數字！二○○四 年，艾可又嘗試結合大量圖像的創新形式，推出最新小說《羅安娜女王的神祕火燄》。雖然每隔好幾年才會推出一部小說，但大師一出手便不同凡響，每一次都是擲 地有聲的超重量級巨作！
艾可另著有《帶著鮭魚去旅行》、《誤讀》、《智慧女神的魔法袋》、《康德與鴨嘴獸》、《意外之喜──語言與瘋狂》等雜文、隨筆和評論集。
譯者簡介
翁德明
一九六一年生，台灣省澎湖縣人。國立台灣大學外文系學士，巴黎第四大學法文系博士，現任國立中央大學法文系副教授，譯有《睡眠帝國》、《昨日之島》、《零戰》等書。並著有《現代法語作家小辭典》。
皇冠文化出版《艾可談文學》
Amazon.com: On Literature (9780151008124): Umberto Eco, Martin ...
- [ 翻譯此頁 ]This collection of essays and lectures by Umberto Eco and translated by Martin McLaughlin contains Eco's reflections on several aspects of literature, ...2008-01-17 13:04:01来自: antelis
-- 《On Literature》 中文版，以下為節錄，In this collection of essays and addresses delivered over the course of his illustrious career, Umberto Eco seeks "to understand the chemistry of [his] passion" for the word. From musings on Ptolemy and "the force of the false" to reflections on the experimental writing of Borges and Joyce, Eco's luminous intelligence and encyclopedic knowledge are on dazzling display throughout. And when he reveals his own ambitions and superstitions, his authorial anxieties and fears, one feels like a secret sharer in the garden of literature to which he so often alludes. Remarkably
艾可談文學：寫作，是為了讀者
身為小說家，我的例子算是反常。因為我在八歲到十五歲便開始寫故事和小說，後來我停止了，等到快五十歲才又恢復寫作習慣。
小說家言：「我當時想要毒殺一位僧侶。」
我的第一本小說《玫瑰的名字》是從四十六到四十八歲寫成的。
我的頭三本小說源自的種子概念其實不過是一個意象：這個意象攝住了我，令我想要勇往直前。《玫瑰的名字》誕生是因為我腦海中浮現一位僧侶在圖書館 裡被謀殺的景象。我曾寫道：「我當時想要毒殺一位僧侶。」這個帶挑釁意味的語句被人照字面意義加以理解，造成後續人家的競相提問：為什麼我想犯下這種罪 行？
可是我壓根完全沒有毒殺僧侶的意圖（的確也從未幹過這種勾當）：只是一位僧侶在圖書館閱讀時被人毒殺的景象，在我腦海逡巡，不肯離去。我不知道自己是否受到英國傳統偵探小說理論的影響，也就是說作品裡必須描述附近發生了一樁謀殺案。
也許我是重新走回自己十六歲所經歷過的情緒：有一次我到修道院靈修，散步經過哥德式和羅馬式的迴廊，走進一間幽暗的圖書館時，我發現攤在閱讀架上 那本《聖徒行傳》裡記載，除了一位原先我就知道、祝日是三月四日的「真福安伯托」，還另有一位生前擔任主教的「聖溫貝托」，他的祝日是九月六日，據說還曾 經在森林中令一頭獅子信了基督教。可以想見，在那時候，我將垂直攤開在我面前的厚冊逐頁翻尋下去的時候，周遭那片死寂，只有光透過鑲在尖頂拱窗半透明的玻 璃照進來，當時我內心感受到的是一股不尋常的騷動。
重點是那幕景象，也就是在閱讀時遭人謀害的僧侶，在某個時間點要求我在它周遭建立圍繞著它的東西。其他接著就一點一點慢慢加進來了，為的是要讓那 核心景象產生意義，包括將故事背景設定在中世紀。起先我認為故事的背景應該發生在當代；接著我又決定，既然我知道而且也喜歡中古世紀，何不拿它當做我這故 事的背景？
建構一個世界，以十足自信在其中自由來去
寫《玫瑰的名字》的時候，如果沒記錯，我有整整一年時間連一個句子也沒寫（《傅科擺》至少兩年）。我沒有寫，只是讀，只是畫畫草圖，忙著建構一個世界。這世界必須盡可能精確，以便我能懷著十足自信在其中自由來去。
寫《玫瑰的名字》的過程中，我畫的迷宮以及修道院的平面圖多達好幾百張，靈感來自他人畫的平面圖以及我實地參訪的經歷。因為我需要每個要素都能完美運作，因為我需要知道兩個人從甲地邊走邊談到乙地需要多少時間。
我還把修道院所有僧侶的相貌儀態都畫出來。所有的角色幾乎全部蓄鬚（儘管我無法確定那年代的聖本篤修會修士是否全部蓄鬚），後來拍電影時，導演就 得仰仗博學的顧問考據當年修士是否蓄鬚。值得一提的是，在小說中我對他們是否蓄鬚一事毫無著墨。但我在讓我的角色說話或是行動時，需要先認清楚他們，否則 我就無法知道該讓他們說出什麼樣的內容。
小說寫作的結束，意味悲傷的產生
我知道有些作家早上八點起床，在鍵盤上從八點半敲到十二點（每天至少寫出一行），然後停止工作，外出休閒直到晚上。我則不一樣。
我寫一本小說的時候，寫作這項行為其實要到後來才會發生。我一開始都先閱讀做筆記、替角色畫肖像、為小說中的地名畫出地圖、為動作定出時間次序。 這些工作都用細麥克筆或是電腦進行，至於選哪一種就看工作的時間和地點為何：如果是坐火車時生出靈感，就記在火車票背後，也可以寫在筆記本或是資料卡上； 可以用原子筆、錄音帶，如果必要，藍莓果汁也可以派上用場。
關於自己寫小說的方法，我只能再補充一點：這些小說每一本都要花上好幾年的時間。我不懂為什麼有人可以每年都寫一本小說；這些作品也可以是令人讚嘆的，而且我打從心底佩服。但佩服歸佩服，我可不羨慕他們。寫作小說這事的美，並不是在即時轉播，而是延後傳送的美。
每次小說寫到尾聲，我就覺得苦惱，換句話說，根據作品的內部邏輯，它要停止了，而我也得跟著停止。而且我注意到，如果我堅持繼續下去，可能只會弄 糟作品而已。美妙之處（也就是真正的樂趣所在）在於六年、七年或八年當中（最好是永遠），你能活在一個你一點一滴親手建構起來的世界，而且這世界已經專屬 於你。
小說寫作的結束，意味悲傷的產生。
這也是鞭策你再立刻開始寫另一本小說的唯一理由。但如果它不是已經好整以暇在那裡等你，你就是著急地摩拳擦掌也沒有用。
作家寫作只是為了讀者。凡是說只為自己寫作的人倒也不必然就是扯謊。那只意味著他那天不怕地不怕的無神論態度教人吃驚。
作家如果無法對未來的讀者說話，那麼他必然是絕望的、不快樂的。